Treamus
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Member Since: 6/24/2007
Last Seen: 7/8/2008

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December 06, 2007 3:09 PM  (go back to main view)
Art critics on me.

About 2000 words in this one, about art and critics etc.

My day job involves baby and family portraits, with printing and retouching, which is generally considered down in the lower echelons of photography, but I decided to go out there and see what the art community thinks of my personal work.

In the past few weeks I managed to get some interviews organised with an art magazine editor and two photographic exhibition curators.

I don’t think online community’s like DA are a good way to get feedback on your work. So I thought some feedback from gallery directors would be helpful.

Needless to say my work was considered puerile, immature, shallow and without depth, one guy even went as far to call me a racist and sexist, saying somehow he interpreted my pictures having a nationalist slant.

My cousin had organised two meetings with photographic curators, and I had a meeting with the editor from source magazine www.source.ie organised through the Dublin camera club.

The first meeting was with the editor of source which is based in Belfast.
This was the first talk, which was the most positive encounter as the criticism was constructive, and I did find him quite helpful.


Out of seventy e-mails of work sent to him he choose seven people to meet, so he must of thought some of the stuff I sent him was okay.

His biggest problem with my images was that they are just funny puns, with out any real depth or substance, but he thought they were technically good and well seen. He said he never tried street photography , but he’s heard it’s difficult to do.


He had met Jeff Mermelstein, and that I should study his work as it has far more depth and meaning, I told him I was familiar with Jeff’s work. He then said my stuff was a shallow imitation where I’ve just skimmed the top of Jeff’s style and the style of magnum without getting any of the real meaning behind there images.

Although he did say if I had a continued theme with a story a beginning, middle and end, that he could publish my work.

He said if I could produce ten images equally strong as this of people in Cafes he could publish it.

He said pictures like this might be too disturbing to publish, although he liked it.

In some ways I did find him very helpful, as my biggest critic is me a lot of what he said I was already thinking to my self. Especially when he said in three years time am I still going to be doing this funny pun stuff, and personally most of my personal work was already going in a different direction long before this meeting.

Altogether he was a nice guy, and although he didn’t really like my work he did try to be helpful about where I should go. He said I should email to keep up to date with my future projects, and I think I will as there is a possibility of publication.

But in fairness I’ve looked through that magazine and I don’t like about 80% of the work published in it. It is an “art” magazine, and to most people the idea of what I do being high art is very questionable. In the past they have shown the work Erwitt and Bruce Gilden.

Most people like friends and family I show my pictures to, just scratch there heads and say but who would but these photos on their walls. The last girl I was going out with couldn’t figure out why I would spend most of my free time doing this sort of thing. To tell you the truth every girl I’ve ever gone out with couldn’t figure out the art I was into. Surly I should spend my time doing this type of photography www.philippankov.com that I could sell and would look pretty hanging over a fireplace.

My meeting with a photographic curator with a BA and PHD behind her name, was a disaster to say the least. She had managed to book a space here http://www.templebargallery.com/ for next year and was going around Dublin looking for unpublished photographers to display.

She had no idea what my work entailed, I just went in cold with a box of 30 prints. I wish I had brought a camera with the look on her face of disgust, as she thumbed through the images looking like she wanted to blow her nose in the prints. What made it worse was she had a secretary or PA or what ever the fuck they’re called these days tut-tuting and agreeing with everything she said.

Before she even looked at my stuff I was told to list my influences. When I named off Winogrand she said oh good Winogrand is one of my favourites I can’t wait to look.

About half way through the box of pictures she said that I was no Winogrand as his pictures had more depth and meaning, and said something about the society he lived in. Really I thought he just leered at girls in miniskirts half the time.
According to Miss PHD gallery curator my images portrayed all my subjects in a negative or derogatory light.

And she asked me did I honestly think that a gallery would ever display this. I said I thought it was humorous juxtaposition, she and her assistant looked at each other puzzled.

I later found out from my cousin who organised the meeting, she said that this photo was one the worst she’s ever seen.

I’m very proud of that, to think in all her years as a curator that one of my images was the worst. It was actually one of the first photo’s taken with the new rangefinder. A sign from god I think.

There was no real constructive comments, only my work lacks depth. Yet her current exhibition of empty playgrounds printed flat, has depth.

What bugs me is that at the end of the meeting she thanked me for my time, shook my hand and was very cordial. It was only later through other people I found out what she really thought of it, and said shit about me. I don’t know why she couldn’t say half of that crap to my face at the time.


Any time she looked at one she in particularly disliked she would pudge her fat double chin and hold out to her assistant to sneer at. This one particular I could tell she hated, actually all my recent work taken with the Leica she disliked.

It’s hard to be arty.


I had a brief meeting with another freelance gallery curator, to get advice on how to get into a gallery. He had a exhibition coming up here next year.
Again there was feeling’s of Déjà vu, as my work lacks depth or any real meaning. They are just funny puns. This time I included more traditional documentary photos in the selection.

He said this image was racist and derogatory against women in content. He even pointed out the sign in the background has last Thursday of every month, which he interpreted as a reference to women having a period. I think him even seeing that says more about him than me.

This one also in his opinion was racist in content. For more about 1916 here’s the wikipedia link.

Again he said the people are not portrayed in a positive way, and get this I’ll try not to laugh even when I type this, “this kind of photography is not relevant in post cease fire Ireland”, I shit you not that’s what he actually said.

These two people are not even real gallery directors they just rent the space from a gallery, curate the show, then take a cut from the profits of sales.
What they are looking for is arty stuff that would fetch a high price.

Anyway I’m sick of even recounting this bullshit. I mean I look at Flickr and deviant art and there are so many people out there doing it, it’s hard to stand out from the crowd.
I mean right now it’s not like I’m shooting for myself anymore, I feel like I’m going out on a assignment to satisfy an audience.

That’s not a bad thing, since it does push me onto getting closer and more aggressive in my image making.

At the moment Dublin is not that big a city and among the street shooters I am becoming known, as you see the same bloody guy’s at every protest or market day. It’s good to see these old guard types respect me, and say my stuff is good.

When I was a teenager I went around doing street photography, with a point and shoot. When I was in college doing film making, my lectures told me street was low brow photography, again even my girlfriend at the time thought the genre sucked (bear in mind my really early street photos sucked). It didn’t matter anyway I gave up stills photography in the first year anyway, I was more interested in drawing.

I didn’t get back into it until August of 2006 (after about a eight year absence), because of the cameraquest competion that was on DA.

The difference with documentary style photography as compared to when I was doing drawings or background layouts for animation. When your researching source material and then finally commit to a finished piece the drawing draught work can take a week to a day. But as it’s gradual process you have a sense of a finished piece. With photography (that’s not Photoshop based) everything is composed and done with in a fraction of a second, I don’t get the same sense of completion, it’s like every individual picture is just a small jigsaw piece of a larger body of work. What that master work is I don’t exactly know yet. I feel I’m still trying to find my way.

Even when I was an animator, my deadlines were always late, as nothing was ever good enough, I would always try perfect the details, luckily with my new photographic personal work I have no deadline to meet so I can fuss over the details.

I went to the Magnum website, typed in a image search of Dublin, and looked at the incredible images in there archives.
I feel what I do can be pushed so much further. Then again I look at some of the work the masters and if they were making photos today no one would hardly even notice their work. Especially since we live in the age of where everyone is a photographer. And all it costs is 24 euro to be a pro for a year (fuckr).

For the past three month’s I’ve been shooting more, yet submitting less to the web. Because my standards and editing is becoming more and more ridged, I’m trying to develop a new style (if that’s possible), and break away from anything I’ve doing in the past. But when I’m out there making images I’m thinking to myself, oh this is a Erwitt style shot or a Frank style shot should I really take this, it‘s been done before.

I’ll just have to clear out others opinions from my memory, and start fresh, shoot for myself again.
The images I’ve been making with the rangefinder are totally different from anything I ever did with an SLR anyway.


Looking back at some photos that I made at the start before I studied books of famous photographers, it’s strange you could still say they were in the style of Richard Kalvar etc.


At this stage nearly everything has been done before, although Trent Parke proves you can still be original. And something to strive for. My dad always told me that as soon as you think you’re the best, give up, if there is nothing left to learn, because that’s where the challenge or fun is.

Getting into a gallery is not important since the work that was displayed the previous week was probably photos of some guy wanking onto a rubber swan.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope your all well.

Blog Comments (16):
Posted by  on March 17, 2008 1:32 AM
Jeremy Brotherton

You know what pisses me off about the ART world? What really makes me go WTF is wrong with you people. When people like you had mentioned read into things and make up stuff that wasn't or isn't even there. Or they take some simple idea and make it seem all deep in shit. Or when they act all on top of the world and treat you like a piece of shit nobody and they them selfs are unable to even work a camera, paint or draw past a high school level. I hate when people get a shit load of money for say a basket ball in a fish tank full of water? A teacher who I had when I was in school for photography said I think the art would in is in need of a major surgical procedure to remove it's head from it's ass. When ever I meet these types I normally just stop listening. Sometimes things are just Dada or just perdy things to look at. Nothing more nothing less. Your work I think is very good. And reminds me of Robert Franks The Americans. He is one of my photographic street photography heroes because he shows how things are not how they are portrayed to be. And you have a great since of visual humor that reminds me of Elliot Erwitt another hero of mine. When I was in my history of photo 2 class my teacher would say things and I would wonder how much of it was just her reaching and making up a story that most likely didn't even cross the mind of the photographer. Or her own neurosis showing. For example she said the photo by Winogrande of the girl laughing because her ice cream feel off the cone is funny because the manikin in the back ground is a male figure with no head and the ice cream lost it's so it's a male emasculating themed photo. I just looked at her and thought to myself no I think he took the photo because she was a hot girl and he saw her laughing. I'm just starting off as a photographer and I have a large amount of room to grow. I've only done a few art shows with other artists who are starting off and I just can't stand a lot of them. They are full of their selfs. Or they act all O I am soooo deep and it drives me nuts... Look at me wearing all black with my black rimmed glasses drinking my wine or coffee smoking my cigarette with or with out a long holder. I think it takes balls to go out and do street photography and I think it's a lot harder to be at the right place at the right time to capture a moment that is a great pun or representation of a moment like the sailor kissing the nurse. Also you have to be quick and know how to use what lighting is available to you at that given moment to your advantage. And have people skills and be fast with your tongue. It's a hard thing to impress people with. Most people don't think about how hard it is to do. and I think it's sad really. I'm hoping to one day do a series of street photos myself but I'm working from a distance then building up to working with a rangefinder. I'm too afraid people will mug me and steel my stuff or go all nuts on me right now to be close. Though I will say that I try to stand out like a sore thumb so people don't think I'm up to something. I dress nicely and I talk politely to people and so far I've had nothing but good experiences. I just need to get past me fears. Screw em shoot for you and those who you respect. But in the end it should only matter what you think.
Posted by CMphotogra... on December 09, 2007 11:53 AM
i can imagine how most "art gallery" directors react to street photography as i see what the windows of these galleries are filled with. mostly eye-pleasing pictures or really controversial stuff makes it's way to the galleries. photo reports are the ones that make it into magazines or books, but only because the photos tell a story about a certain topic or are just used to complement the words.
street photography is kinda caught between the seats. often it's not as eye-pleasing as the fine art prints you see in the galleries (even if those are highly manipulated to get the right look) and the photos together don't really tell a coherent story. i do love street photography, but the only way i can think of myself as a street photographer is as a hobbyist. just because i encountered all the same problems like you did. most people just don't get it, but i can live with that since i mainly shoot for myself. there are some of my friends who really like some of my photos and even have prints of them hanging on their walls. but these are very hard to find.
Posted by flipo on December 09, 2007 9:44 AM
This kind of curators are the main reason why 99% of the exhibitions are just boring and showcase "artsitic" nude photography or landscapes.
Just keep shooting, there are more than enough people who admire you work!
Posted by nimai on December 08, 2007 4:43 PM
That was a very interesting read. Thanks for taking the time to talk about those experiences and your honest thoughts. I have no experience with galleries, working professionally, or even studying "the greats". Often, I feel I should, but then it happens to me too, when I am about to shoot and I think--nah, it's been done.
It's an odd thing, this innate desire to be original, create things unique. Maybe a quality that was passed on to man when "God made man in his own image.." Or maybe it's just an ego thing. :) Who knows. Anyway, I find your work thought provoking and inspiring.
Posted by Josh on December 08, 2007 4:26 PM
We are a new generation of street photographers and we are the middle children of this era. We are told that being bold and new is a good thing and every time we do it, we get told that it sucks, that it lacks depth. Every time we photograph 'in the style of' we get called hacks and told that we aren't being original and we are just a copy of a copy of a copy.

We are the first generation for easy non-top communication with the entire world and fuck knows we're finding it difficult because instead of small communities where you learn what people like, we now have the world to please. They care about people who are dead and gone, we care about the living and our view on them and God knows people like you and I are going to fucking represent them how we see fit. We are a new and unique generation and we're not gonna pussyfoot around and just do what everyone used to do.

We are a lost generation struggling to find our feet and your photography shows that and fuck them if they can't see that.
Posted by Darren Aba... on December 07, 2007 3:52 PM
"Those" people are not like us. "They" are at the other end of the spectrum. The 95:1 Crap:Good ratio of photo gallery images that I've seen are proof enough of that. I wouldn't even stop to piss on the kind of prints they want to see. You just keep doing what you're doing, because what you're doing rocks.
Posted by Tinz on December 07, 2007 2:32 PM
I'm always amazed how the more expressionless a photo looks, the more "deep" it is supposed to be...posed shots of girls looking bored is supposed to reveal more about human behavior/nature than photojournalism...how?
so what if your photos are too punny for their galleries...you've still got a great eye.
Posted by Treamus on December 07, 2007 11:31 AM
@Chris: Thanks for the support it means a lot. Yeah I'll gather their contact information and examples of their shitty work, I already googled one of them, so bad it's laughable. You can't get a PHD in good taste. It's hard to be polite when confronted with bad art, sometimes it is best to leave early.
I'll note you the info.

@James: Thanks mate.

@Mahomo: Thanks for the encouragement, I always go out so people can enjoy my photos. Getting displayed on Chris wall is better than any of those gallery snobs displays.
Posted by Treamus on December 07, 2007 10:51 AM
@rhapsouldize: Thanks. Oh course I suck, I don't photograph nudes or fences. Yes it is more sexist to photograph women with clothes on.

@jamie: Yes anyone who can talk the talk, can make people believe what they do is art. It's a case of the king with invisible clothes. These peoples opinions mean nothing to me, as I view their personal work as awful.

@Ivan: Shooting fences is the new decisive moment.
Posted by James on December 07, 2007 12:22 AM
i love your photos man and alot more people do too.
forget all that negative stuff, do it cause you love it!

i know this stuff didn't discourage you and if anything it is going to make you take more photos. and that is all that matters!

keep on doing your thing man!!



Posted by mahomo on December 06, 2007 6:59 PM
i agree with everything above mate. it's unbeuckinglievable! as soon as i see a new link to one of your shots or blogs, i know i'm in for a visual treat, every time. fuck the galleries, there's always an audience here that understands and appreciates the time and effort that goes into your work, it's truly inspiring. and if i had a choice of having my work displayed on chris's wall or a gallery wall, i know which i'd choose. keep your chin up ;)
Posted by Chris on December 06, 2007 4:13 PM
mate ... your photo is proudly displayed in our dining room where art directors, talent, our friends and many others will see it. fuck that old fat bitch. she, like many others with phd's and m.f.a.'s don't know shit nor can they do anything "arty" themselves. will you please email me the contact information for those idiots? i'd love to interview them. also, j and i went by a gallery to say hi to a friend. we saw the show they had up. we were laughing so hard at how bad the work was ... we had to leave as to not insult our friends there. ;) get on that contact information; i have a project in mind. ;) hope you're well, mate.
Posted by Ivan Marca... on December 06, 2007 4:07 PM
maybe you could take a photograph of a fence and get published! lol
Posted by Ivan Marca... on December 06, 2007 4:04 PM
i have go agree w you, DA is definitely not the best place to get feedback. some of the people there are not really appreciating or helping at all, they just want attention by page views and such. nevertheless, there are also ppl who make up for all the trash and spam you get.
its the internet man, its filled with shit and bad information... soon you will have to pay for filters and to get good quality knowledge.
sometimes artists are misunderstood or disliked at first...
" I’ll just have to clear out others opinions from my memory, and start fresh, shoot for myself again. ".. that's what matters :)
Posted by jamie on December 06, 2007 3:35 PM
"It’s hard to be arty." Indeed. I'm AMAZED at the comments those non-professionals offered up. I almost want their numbers to have a little chat with them myself. If your work is so juvenile, why is it up on the first wall that you see when you walk into our home? Fuck the "critics" and gallery space renters. Anyone who knows how to "talk the talk" can get their photos up on gallery walls. There are only three photographers displayed in our very exclusive gallery :).
Posted by rhapsouldi... on December 06, 2007 3:12 PM
of course your photography sucks... you don't photograph anorexic nude women! :rolls eyes: i don't understand how anyone could say that your photographs were sexist, when much of the popular photography today revolves around exploiting nearly clothesless women. some people really need to get a reality check.

if it makes you feel any better, you are one of my favorite photographers that i know on any of these internet sites, and i always feel inspired when i see your photos. cheers!
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ABOUT ME

Gender: Male
Current Zip: 90210
College: Ballyfermot, Animation and Film Making.
Favorite Bands: Rocket from the crypt. CCR.
Favorite Films: Amelie, Fight Club, The Mission.
Favorite Books: Catch 22. Tropic of Cancer. Heroditus.
Favorite TV Shows: Don't watch TV, but the Sopranos is very good.
Favorite Hang Outs: Anywhere that serves Alcohol in Dublin.
Favorite Artists: Harry Clarke. M.C Escher. Trente Parke. Carravagio.
Body Type: average
I Am Here For: networking
Sexual Orientation: straight
Ethnicity: white_caucasian
Relationship Status: single
Religion: catholic
Occupation: Photoshop retoucher/printer. Assistant Photographer
Philosophy: I suscribe to the Classical Greek stuff.
Gets Me Hot: Gas central heating.
Vices: Too many to mention.
Current Crush: Too many to mention.
Most Humbling Moment: Too many to mention.
Fantasy: Too many to mention.
MY PHOTOS
COMMENTS
Jul 08, 2008 11:20 PM
Found your blog here from deviantART.

Anyway, nice shots man :D
Jun 05, 2008 4:16 AM
Nice page, i enjoyed looking at your photos =]
May 06, 2008 4:35 PM
thanks for accepting my request :)

/Lasse
May 06, 2008 9:36 AM
I love the photos your dad took, always people doing horse riding
Apr 26, 2008 2:01 PM
awesome :'D love your photos! ;)) xoxo
Apr 15, 2008 4:01 AM
It's been a while. Just been doing some catching up. Great to see your new stuff (well, what photobucket hasn't fucked up)! Good to see the M6 is treating you well and have a great trip mate!
Apr 14, 2008 6:56 AM
Hi Seamus
Just found your blog via Chris. You've got some really great stuff going on here. I look forward to spending some time catching up.
Cheers
Mark
Apr 10, 2008 7:55 PM
Hey, great gallery man. I follow you on dA, do you blog often on here?
Mar 23, 2008 4:56 AM
you have amazing photos! that is enough said in itself! thanx for the add!
Feb 21, 2008 3:08 PM
Your pictures are GOR-GEOUS! :)
Feb 20, 2008 5:59 PM
I just love your street photos.. great "Gallery"
Feb 05, 2008 10:07 AM
Nice page Treamus, Please click on the CASSETTE displayed on my page to listen to the music. Thats me signing and rapping on the first song. I also produced and wrote it. Strange enough, my EX-GIRLFRIEND's brother played the guitar. Things that I mentioned in the song came to pass in real life. Please listen to get the full STORY. I wrote the song but didnt think what I happened to simply create out of exploration of the art would actually happen to me.Please don't forget to VOTE. Over and Out. C.R.I.$.I.$.
Jan 22, 2008 11:53 AM
Your photography is cool. I love it all.
Jan 13, 2008 4:44 PM
Hi ;) Gathering my friends from dA, so I popped in a bit Hope you wont mind Well I guess we'll see each other if you want to ;)
Jan 08, 2008 6:07 PM
overall enjoyed your photos, great eye! I hope I didnt overload you with comments, but when I see something I like I like to let people I know I appreciate...and then I go on to another picture....and i like that one too....
Jan 03, 2008 9:42 AM
what wonderful imagery you have here! i really love your street captures. and thanks for the add! :)
Dec 31, 2008 5:44 PM
Happy New Year, and all that rot!
Dec 28, 2007 2:43 PM
I wish my stuff was as deep and thought provoking as Johns as well! Man think of how cool we would be then! Great shots by the way! Love em!!!
Dec 19, 2007 9:18 AM
Happy to find you here! By the way don’t listen to that double chined bitch curator. Your photography rocks...you just haven’t met the person who understands it yet. Personally I like your style, I feel like its a window through your eyes. Cheers!
Dec 11, 2007 4:26 AM
Beautiful gallery!! I love your style, give me lots of inspiration as a new street photographer (: Keep the awesome work!
Dec 10, 2007 3:50 PM
I really enjoy your work. Very casually, circumstantial and comical, it does have meaning! Much to the eye of the interpreter, wonderful. Unfortunately I have crossed over to the dark side of DSLR's and I haven't really gotten the swing of it yet. I think I need to get my ass out of the exhaustingly blah, US and hug my film camera close again.
Dec 06, 2007 9:07 PM
I really really enjoyed looking at your photos. I don't know what those so-called "curators" were thinking, but your work certainly has depth, humour and grit. Keep at it
Dec 05, 2007 3:09 AM
great photos .... i've grabed some photos as my favorite ..... hope you don't mind
Nov 24, 2007 7:40 PM
hey thanks for the comments man. i enjoyed going through your work.. and i'm jealous of your m6! lol
Oct 21, 2007 6:40 PM
No worries - loved your blog post
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